Chabad To Protest PM Olmert In Washington

Arutz Sheva reports:

A protest rally is scheduled to be held in Washington, D.C. on Tuesday, May 23rd, coinciding with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert’s first White House visit.

Organizers include Bnei Elim, AFSI, Chabad, and Manhigut Yehudit. They will protest Olmert’s plan to divide Jerusalem and expel residents of many communities in Judea and Samaria.

The protest will take place at noon, in Taft Park adjacent to the Capitol Building.



Filed under Chabad Theology, Israel

52 responses to “Chabad To Protest PM Olmert In Washington

  1. People learned nothing from last year. Chilul Hashem 101.

  2. Der Kugelager

    The protesters list should read:
    ovdei elilim,
    lo chochma – lo beenah – velo doos,
    lo manhigut ubevadday lo yehudit.
    utzu eitza vetufor, dabru dovor velo yokum etc….
    take your rightful place along with neturei karta. you are no better than them divisive idiots ‘okhrei yisroel!
    The protest will take place at noon, in Taft Park adjacent to the Capitol Building.
    Maybe their end will be like the end of Achav ben Omri king of Israel at the pool of Shomron as predicted by the Novi Eliahu.

  3. Paul Freedman

    News out of Iran is that Jews (and Christians and Zooasterians) will be required to wear badges. I understand that Chabad prefers to protest Jews who are insufficiently (they think) vigilant against Israel’s enemies but it would really be far more helpful if they would join with Jews and together protest against Jew-haters on a common program of Jewish defense and witness. Fighting for your maximum position is all very nice but we have to directly address those in the United States on campuses, in the media, who pimp for our enemies and Chabad does not help out here.

  4. Yochanan Lavie

    My (chabad) shul rabbi will not say “amen” to the prayer for the state of Israel because of Gush Katif. That’s like hating America because you dislike whatever president is sitting. He also claims to not be a “political Zionist” (so much for the difference between Satmar & Lubavitch).

    As a moderate right-winger, I don’t want to give up Jerusalem or return to the exact ’67 borders. But keeping everything is demographically untenable. At the end of the day, I have to respect the decision of the Israeli voters.

    Israel is facing Shoah II, no matter what its borders. Now is not the time to undermine its leadership. Paul Freedman is exactly right.

  5. Michael Kittell

    So some Chabad are protesting. They are so fragmented that Chabad Central will have deniability no mater how obnoxious it gets. I think it’s funny some Chabad people would stand with Manhigut, the two leaders of which were tried for contributing allegedly to the *atmosphere* preceding PM Rabin’s killing. Yet Chabad in Canada joined a condemnation of Neturei Karta..who have never been charged with anything.

  6. Der Kugelager

    My (chabad) shul rabbi will not say “amen” to the prayer for the state of Israel .

    Maybe you should consider changing Rabbi or if you can’t and if you have no irretrievable investment in the shul like building fund, change shul …
    Your Israel, is not his Israel.
    I don’t think he ever meant to say any amen even before Gush Katif. All they do is sow divisiveness and discord.
    Then they proclaim every morning in tefilla lekayem mitzvat assei veahavta lereiakha…..
    Their meaning of unity, is under the tutelage of their dead deity .

    “He also claims to not be a “political Zionist” (so much for the difference between Satmar & Lubavitch)”.

    Sure, they have a different sovereign! (theirs is dead)
    There you go!
    Did I understand from previous posting that he is a new Rabbi by your shul?
    Watch out when he start badmouthing those who hired him. Because according to their Shita, (much like the x’stians of old-who no longer do that now) they are commanded by their system to deny all credit or any hakarat hatov to their predecessors.
    Before you know, he will be saying that he started the congregation. Perhaps even that he gave birth to all congregants from his very loins.
    He will say that before him there was no kashrut, there was no jewish school, there was no minyan. Then he will say that your mikve is deffective. He will bring a phoney of his to make it compliant with halakha, at community expense who will do nothing of substance. Then he will say that your shechita is no good enough for him. It ain’t chassidisch, in the name of unity, you all have to eat his treif Rubashwhatever.
    Then, he will sell to everybody Glatt chicken(no such a thing).
    Then he will drop from nowhere a pile of kehot siddurim and chitas, he is not imposing, he will say, they will be there for those who want them. Then he will bill the shul for the siddurim you did very well without.
    Then they will print the tanya in your block. latest edition. The publisher will be Chabad of—-(fill in the name of your block)—-.
    Throw him out! Yafa shaah achat kodem!

  7. Yochanan Lavie

    Dear Kugelager: I wish I could, but the board is stupid. Also, living in a small Jewish community gives me the choice of 2 nominally MO shuls, each with Chabad rabbis. There is a nice conservative synagogue, but it’s a shlep to walk there. I actually like the rabbi personally. I just can’t discuss religion with him…

    Thanks for your concern.

  8. mazeartist

    I’m not going to attend this rally. I’d hate to be photoed standing next to those yellow-flaggers. Unless AFSI can guarantee good attendance rallies, a rally doniated by identical-looking black hatters with yellow pins is not worth attending.

    For the record however, I also dislike Olmert, and consider him a coward.

  9. Ma. Rabbi

    A story for all the chabad haters:
    This past Fri., the Mass. turnpike was closed due to a truck rollover. All the traffic was diverted to side roads. A real mess.
    About 2 hours before Shabbos, I received a call from an Aish rabbi, one of his people was stuck and would not make it home for Shabbos. I said send him to me. An hour later, an Orthodox rabbi called and said a young couple was also stuck. So we took them as well. 3 unexpected guests who just made it to my house right before candle lighting.Fortunately, we had room and my wife always makes plenty of food for Shabbos.
    The point of the story:
    1 Chabad is there
    2 everyone calls on Chabad

    People all over the world turn to Chabad when they need help. Chabad is providing services to Jews all over. The Jewish community needs Chabad and that is why it continues to grow and expand.

  10. Yochanan Lavie

    Ma Rabbi: “People all over the world turn to Chabad when they need help.”

    True that. I live in a small Jewish community and the only rabbi we could get was Lubavitch. I am not a “chabad hater.” As I stated above, I even like the rabbi personally. But if chabad is so ubiquitous, it needs to be scrutinized. For all its acknowleged good, it has serious flaws. It is authoritarian, and belittles other forms of Orthodoxy. It meddles in Israeli politics, while not encouraging Zionism or aliya. And most importantly, it has a dead messiah! The latter is extremely serious, given chabad’s influence.

    My nightmare for the future is that there are two “Judaisms:” a Reform which believes in optional mitzvot and disregards the Torah as fairytales, and a chabad-dominated Orthodoxy which has a dead messiah, rejects modernity, has a myriad of chumrahs- in short the hamish Amish.

    In my not so humble opinion, chabad needs to purge itself of its neochristian, neo-Sabbatean heresies. And other “orthodoxies” need to reach out and provide more services to the Jewish community.

    After all, many Palestineans allegedly voted for Hamas due to its social services (I am not equating Chabad with Hamas- it’s only an analogy).

  11. Ma. Rabbi

    Reply to Yochanan:
    The reason I and other Chabad rabbis protest the Olmert Perez Govt. is because it endangers the Jews of Israel.Today a Kassam rocket hit a school in Sderot. By a great miracle of Hashem, the children were out davening and were not hurt.As the kassam attacks increase in the South, Olmert talks about giving away the West Bank.Also today, the Olmert Govt. voted to give the Arabs 11 million dollars to buy medicine, if they really do. At the same time, cancer patients in Israel dont have money to buy their much needed medications.

  12. Yochanan Lavie

    I am no fan of Neville Chamberlain Olmert. But I respect the right of the Israeli voters to make their own mistakes. I also think that holding on to all the territories is unrealistic, given the huge population of hostile phallustineans. I don’t want to make Israelis cannon fodder to an unrealistic Whole Israel policy, from the comfort of the Diaspora.

    My personal opinion (which doesn’t count for much in this instance, as I live in the Diaspora), is that Yigal Allon was right. The Rebbe and the Kahanists would annex the Palestineans- and then attempt to ethnic cleanse them. No good. The defeatist Olmertites would like to give them everything, and beg them to like us- also no good. We should hold on to areas that are strategic, but not heavily populated, such as the Jordan Valley, the Golan Heights, Jerusalem, and parts of Samaria. (We should have kept the northern Gaza and given a similar sized piece of the Negev- to protect Ashkelon- but it’s too late).

    I also think we should have moved the evacuated settlements intact, to the Negev and Galil. By keeping the evacuated settlers as refugees, Olmert wants to break their will. They should be redirected, but not broken. We need committed Zionists, but not messianic fanatics.

  13. Chaya Tova

    To the owner of this website:
    Everytime I type in a topic on the internet to find out what is happening in the world, I come across your website as one of the first sources. When I read your website at length, I realized that it is filled with loshin hara about very holy, G-d fearing people. It is most important that you so tshuva or you will have to give a reckoning in Heaven to Hashem when you die about why you have done this. To post such severe loshin hara about many holy rabbis could make you loose your place in olam haba, G-d forbid. Therefore, it is important that you take time and truly reflect in your heart what you are doing and ask if what you are doing is for the sake of heaven. Anyone who is in tune with the world can realize that the redemption is coming soon and only those who are for Hashem and have ultristic motives will survive. Please take this message to heart and do some introspection while you still have time. This could be a shliach from Hashem warning you as Hashem wants man to do tshuva and be righteous and shun evil. I think it is terrible that people threaten you and etc. This is of course also wrong. No one should wish ill on his fellow man, but rather we should wish that he turn to Hashem. G-d bless.

  14. Der Kugelager

    to chayyeh,
    “It is most important that you so tshuva or you will have to give a reckoning in Heaven to Hashem when you die ……. what you are doing and ask if what you are doing is for the sake of heaven. ”
    u kidding or what?
    u speaking for those:
    haqoreem laor choshekh velachoshekh or?
    it is the perpetrators of idolatry that ought to do tshuva.
    this blog does nothing but kiddush hashem!

  15. Chaya Tova

    We should all do tshuva, not just idol worshippers. King David and many other righteous people did tshuva and they did not worship idols. If such holy people as those had to do tshuva, than we all should. The reason this web site is problematic is because it speaks badly about other jews. This is loshin hara and the Talmud says one is habitually speaks loshin hara can loose his place in olam haba. It is impossible to do a kiddush Hashem by violating other mitzvot such as loshin hara. If you can not trangress one halacha to sanctify Hashem’s name. Even if things said on this site are true (which I am not saying there are) it is still loshin hara to speak of them. Loshin hara is saying truthful bad things and motzei shem ra is saying false bad things about others. It is forbidden to even believe bad things said about others. Also, how is it beneficial to hear bad things about others? How does that make us better people and sanctify Hashem’s name? I read the author of this website’s background and his intentions on trying to save Ethiopian Jews was a wonderful thing. This shows his heart yearns to do good and he has a good heart. He needs to use that part of his heart that has a sincere desire to do chessed to “do kindness and mitzvot” and not spend time bashing wel respected leaders of klal yisrael. If he spent time helping others instead of making this website, think of how much more Hashem’s name could be sanctified. Btw, I myself also need to do tshuva. I am not saying that I am perfect or holy myself.
    Chaya Tova

  16. Chaya Tova

    Btw, to believe that the Rebbe is moshiach is not avoda zara. Although I am not lubavitch myself, I have only seen good from them and my dad now does mitzvot because of them. Think of how many people have become frum because of Chabad. While people bash Chabad for the moshiach thing, these same people often sit on their buts in their nice cozy houses while Chabad goes to Africa to try to get Jews to do mitzvot there. Until these Chabad bashers do the same amount of mesiras nefesh to save Jewish souls, they should not complain. Also, I never saw a source that believe that the wrong person was the moshiach is avoda zara. Many people have made mistakes about who the moshiach is and they were not idol worshippers. Was Rabbi Akiva an idol worshipper for believing in the wrong moshiach? I never saw a criteria for avoda zara in the Torah as believing in a false messiah. So theybelieve in the wrong messiah. If you read the Tanach, you will see that “who” the messiah is is relatively unimportant. It is more the messianic age that is of relevance. The messiah is just a messanger of Hashem. It is Hashem and Torah that is important. All I am saying is lets focus on Hashem, Torah, and loving our fellow Jew instead of bashing jews. It would be more worthwhile to have a website inspiring Jews to have emunah in Hashem and keep mitzvot than to have a website bashing other Jews. That would be an even greater kiddush Hashem.
    Chaya Tova

  17. Paul Freedman

    There was not an effective “occupation” before disengagement of Gaza–there were rockets before disengagement and there are rockets now. We can argue about reconfiguring forces along the border with Egypt or whether Hamas is more dangerous as a governing force or as an oppositional network–but if Gaza had been pacified the IDF would not have left. And now that it has left it still can re-enter to conduct periodic military operations if need be without being stuck in static defensive positions guarding settlements along the sacred dunes of the Philistines. The West Bank has not been “occupied” in the sense of control since the late 80’s–the argument is the value of maintaining what enclaves where and imposing what measure of clamp-downl (containment) over the Palestinian populations through what trade-offs. It is not “hating Chabad” to suggest that the energy spent in these cavalcades against “convergence” are misplaced and are conducted as if there were some practical alternatives (or miraculous alternatives) for more maximum control of the West Bank. Meanwhile boycott resolutions are raised in the West delegitimizing Israel and Chabad’s ideological action plan for engaging the non-Jewish resistance to Israel, the last time I checked, was to disseminate the Noahide laws. But it’s a free country–demonstrate; try not to tie up traffic for those of us who actually have jobs here–if possible disperse by rush hour, OK?

  18. Neo-Conservaguy

    “Even if things said on this site are true (which I am not saying there are) it is still loshin hara to speak of them.”

    With all respect, you are not correct. There are, even in the most right-wing interpretations of the laws of lashon hara, some situations in which one is required to speak of these things.

    “Was Rabbi Akiva an idol worshipper for believing in the wrong moshiach?”

    No, but he didn’t write letters to Bar Kochba/Koziva after he was killed at Betar, either.

  19. Chaya Tova

    When is is permissable to speak loshin hara? I guess if it is permissable it is not loshin hara. This site speaks badly about Rav Ovadia Yosef, shlita, one of the greatest gedolim of our generation. This is just awful. From my experience, every charedi gedol in this generation respects the world of Rav Yosef. I lived in Israel for many years and this is the perception I got. So I don’t see how it is mutar to speak badly about him.
    As far as the Lubavitcher Rebbe, shlita, he was also one of the most respected gedolim when he was alive. No charedi gedol critisized him.
    It would only be mutar to speak badly about gedolim like these if other gedolim have warned against them, and this is not the case. I have not heard one gedol ever speak badly about Rav Yosef or Rav Schneirson.
    So, how can this be mutar?
    Also, about faxing letters to the Rebbe’s grave, many chassidim go to the graves of tzedekim in prayer. In fact, many litvish people also go to the chever of people from the Bible in prayer.
    So I just don’t see how this is avoda zara.
    Btw, I have no anger towards you or the owner of this site. I only want peace and I just want to help because the Talmud is explicit about the dangers of speaking badly about fellow Jews, especially gedolim.
    With peace,
    Chaya Tova

  20. Paul Freedman

    It should be noted that not only does Olmert represent more than his personal opinion (he is, and not by fluke, PM of Israel) but that “convergence”–such as it is–is not the only (or main) item on the agenda with Bush: Palestinian collapse and Iran’s nuclear weapons are immediate concerns on the agenda.

  21. nachum b

    chaya tova,
    i suggest you read this week’s issue of “living with the rebbe”.
    putting aside the oxymoron of “living with a dead man”.
    is this judaism? one and only one rebbe after so long from his demise?
    do we have nothing else?
    no other topic to write about?
    according to these newsletters judaism existed nowhere except in the pale of settlement. russia to russia. muzhik to jew, tzadik mujhik, jewish sinners and yippee tshuve!
    the alter rebbe taught the tzaddik mujhik to threaten treif eatig jews to kill them, then they will do tshuve!
    how low can judaism be debased?
    you will then read a story of a woman who went to Chevron, visited a yishuv, noticed that the picture of the rebbe in that yishuv communal dining room showed him frowning. she then went to another yishuv, got a picture of the rebbe smiling, and returned to give the smiling picture to a resident of that yishuv to replace the frowning picture in the dining room.
    that poor resident was so engrossed and enamoured with the picture, that the lady writer found it necessary to do the round trip again to procure and deliver another copy of the smiling terafim for the man’s living room.
    this is not judaism. your conciliatory message, comes across as damage control. urva parach. lo haya velo nivra.
    PS: I have seen enough of these pictures (smiling or frowning) hanging on kotel mizrach. i wonder which direction they hang from in Chevron.
    by the way i know well how these pictures hang in oh so many places.
    dedicated idolaters, go around with them, calling on businesses and restaurants, (some not even kosher) and suggest to the owners that the picture is good for the business.
    there is no sin per se in a picture (unless hanging on kotel mizrach). the sin, is the clear obsession with promotting only the one aspect of so called judaism(that particular aspect being particularly flawed).

  22. Chaya Tova

    Oops, I just want to clarify a mistake I wrote. I wrote the Rebbe shlita, and I meant to write the Rebbe ztl. I am not Chabad and do not think the Rebbie is still alive. I just wanted to defend them since most lubavtichers are such lovely people and Rebbe, ztl, was a wondeful man.

  23. Chaya Tova

    You said:
    “the alter rebbe taught the tzaddik mujhik to threaten treif eatig jews to kill them, then they will do tshuve!
    how low can judaism be debased?”
    What does “mujhik” nean please?
    Chaya Tova
    PS Please refer to my past note. I accidently wrote, the Rebbe shlita and I meant to write, the Rebbe ztl. I do belive the Rebbe is died, may he rest in peace.

  24. Chaya Tova

    You said:
    “the alter rebbe taught the tzaddik mujhik to threaten treif eatig jews to kill them, then they will do tshuve!
    how low can judaism be debased?”
    What does “mujhik” nean please? Thanks.
    Chaya Tova
    PS Please refer to my past note. I accidently wrote, the Rebbe shlita and I meant to write, the Rebbe ztl. I do believe the Rebbe died, may he rest in peace.

  25. Neo-Conservaguy

    “This site speaks badly about Rav Ovadia Yosef, shlita, one of the greatest gedolim of our generation.”

    Rav Ovadia Yosef, as has been noted on this site, ruled in favor of the Beta Israel, a qiddush haShem if ever there was one. Over the past few years, however, I’m not always comfortable with some of his proclamations.

    “Also, about faxing letters to the Rebbe’s grave, many chassidim go to the graves of tzedekim in prayer. In fact, many litvish people also go to the chever of people from the Bible in prayer. So I just don’t see how this is avoda zara.”

    I think it’s a problem no matter how many people do it. There was a reason that Moshe Rabbeinu’s grave site was hidden from us.

  26. nachum b

    muzhik? is a russian farmer
    the term is also used to denote a am haaretz

  27. Franji

    “I think it’s a problem no matter how many people do it. There was a reason that Moshe Rabbeinu’s grave site was hidden from us.”

    neo conservaguy, hazaq ubarukh.
    all this necrophilia is chillul hashem.
    imagine the planeloads that go to the ukraine on rosh hashana, because reb nachman of breslov, is said to have promised those who pray on his grave that all their prayers will be answered.
    they abandon their wives and children, and go to ukraine? in the path of the balegules who used to visit their rebbes, and partake of their schnaps or wisdom? I could never figure it. they were wrong then, and are wrong now. is this what the zadiq expects? whatever happened to “melo kol haarez kvodo?” isn’t it more adequate to pray where one is accustomed to as brought out in massekhet berachot?
    in israel now, they developped a whole specialty. you want a shiddukh? rabbi yonatan ben uziel, you want to pray for breeut, rabbi meir baal haness, a whole alternate pharmacy.
    this is not judaism. it’s not even kosher and if some rabbis support these idolatrous manifestations, i have nothing to learn from them.

  28. Yochanan Lavie

    Hazaq ubaruch to Neo, Franji, and Paul Freedman for excellent comments.

    Chaya Tova, you’re obviously a sincere person, but a bit naive. A too strict interpretation of Loshon Hara can let creeps like Gafni get away with things. I tried to warn people about Lanner when I was a teenageer, but I was rebuked for speaking Loshon Hara. Maybe some teenaged girls would not have been harassed had people listened to me (and others). Also, I can respect aspects of Schneersohn’s and Yosef’s careers without thinking them angelic and beyond criticism.

    Mr. Freedman: You’re right. Politics is the art of the possible. Magical thinking gets us nowhere.

  29. Chaya Tova

    I understand your point about not knowing where Moshe was buried. In fact, a very prominent charedi rabbi thinks that people should “never” go to any gravesites of rabbis. This rabbi considers gravesites to be an intermediary to Hashem and we do not need an intermediary, he says, we can approach Hashem directly, the rabbi says. His point makes much sense to me, but because so many gedolim endorse the idea of going to graves, I feel that it would be wrong of me to critisize it. If some well respected gedolim say it is okay, shouldn’t we just accept it as sorta an “akeida of the mind” like Rav Schwab once said about things that don’t make sense to us? I thought the Torah says listen to sages even if they say the left is right and vice versa.

    I am sorry to hear that rabbis told people to keep silent if they were abused. Clearly, these rabbis were wrong as it is clear from the Chofetz Chayim that if someone physical harms someone, you must report it to prevent others from being harmed.

    I heard that the reason we ask gedolim to daven for us for a shidduch or if we are ill is because even if we do not have the merit to deserve the shidduch or be healed, if the gedol is sad because we are sad for no shidduch and ill health, Hashem may help us to make the gedol happy. Even if we don’t merit the joy of the shidduch or healing, the joy it will bring the gedol might make Hashem do it. Does that make sense?

    I am enjoying this feedback. Thanks for writing back.
    Chaya Tova

  30. Josh

    Your accusations against Chabad are as usual ludicirous. The individuals who bah chabad on this website never have they had any leigtimcy to their reasons. It’s merely the very hatred that caused for the destruction of the holy temples and the divisivness of Jewry that they continue to promulgate. Conversly, attend a Chabad House and feel the true spirit of love and affectin that they have fro every single Jew regardlss of their affiliation belief or political persasion. Unlike the yentes of this blog, who merely curse at others all the time. How about findin yourselves a day job? Spend some true quality time with your spouse, rather than empty headed time here jus bullshoving. And as those who are familiar wih tenewws know that chabd loves Olmer too (and posibly you as well) They have given him personal support (NOT TO IS POLICIES) And many of you have benefited from Chabad actvities in many ways. When you had no food in Florida, you ate the meals thta Chabad served you and thousands ofo thers. Please, stop your complaining and get a life. Stop being wishi washi ike Yochanan up there who really has no clue where he stands. here he curses Chabad, then says that theyr not soo bad after all, then curses them again….

  31. Yochanan Lavie

    Josh: I am trying to be fair minded, not wishy washy. I oppose ideologies, but try to not attack personalities (unlike you). I can disagree with someone, but like them personally. Shocking, isn’t it? I can acknowledge that Chabad has done good work in outreach, but say that the dead messiah bullshit is the worst heresy since Shabtai Tzvi (look him up). I don’t “curse” anyone. It seems you are the one filled with sinat chinam, because you call those who you disagree with “yentas” without a life. Be civil, and look in the mirror, my friend (and try spell checker). (BTW, I have heard chabadniks saying disparaging things about Zionists and MO. They are not always filled with love, either).

  32. Paul Freedman

    Yochanan: I wish our choices were better than they often are and certainty as easily obtained as many think it to be.

  33. Paul Freedman

    I think the ZOA is also a sponor–they have been placing full page ads calling on President Bush to first refuse “convergence”/realignment/strategic withdrawal and then insist that Olmert have ometz lev in the fight against terrorism.

    If only.

  34. Josh

    Mr. Yochanan,

    As your posted comments continue to prove, that you are an individual who is capriciously confused about where you stand. You revert to condemning Chabad for their legitimate Messianic beliefs. How much have you studied from the Talmud to call that heresy. Or is the Talmud also considered the same to you when it refers to deceased people as being alive or reciting the kiddush or other references where Chabad ideology’s sources are from.

    Secondly, Chabad does not and never will support giving away parts of the Holy Land that is the birthright of every single Jew. No wonder why Nefesh B’Nefesh is having difficulty convincing Diaspora Jewry to emigrate from their comfort zones for an Israeli government who might decide tomorrow to evict them form their new home in order to appease the enemies, who only wish for your annihilation. (By the way, I am from Israel. My family lives in Jerusalem, while I am studying here in NY at YU.)

    In my opinion we have to respect the Israeli government. However, we must not sit idely while they give away land that isn’t there’s to sell, let alone give away for free (supposedly for never to come peace).

    Besides, since the land belongs to every single Jew, did they ask 14 million of us who reside around the world. No, Israeli votes don’t suffice the land is yours as an American Jew juts as much as it is mine. For the rcord, anyways, we see as history constantly is proving us that each time we give up land it made matters worse for us. They take, but give absolutely nothing in return…..

    For Chabad, they are correct and if you feel otherwise, don’t just bash them. Talk respectfuly, as you have tried to tell me.

    Also, try to talk with your Rabbi about these matters, INSTEAD OF JUST CURSING OUT AS YOU DID here…. He would certainly, if he’s a MENTSH WORK THINGS OUT WITH YOU ….

  35. Neo-Conservaguy

    Josh: try easing up on the Kool Aid – you’ll be able to get a better grip on understanding the true nature of halachic Judaism. You might find you want to try out our religion rather than the one you’ve been living.

    Yochanan: right on, my brother. Hazaq uBarukh!

  36. Josh

    Just anoter thought folks: If you are pro giving away the land of Israel, G-d’s gift to the Jewish pepole, then perhas I’d suggest you start with you own home. Give that away to the poor innocent paletsinian who you care for so much or perhaps for the etheiopian child who yo claim should be accpepted as a Jew, even though the venerable Rab Moishe Feinstein said they they mst go throuh full proper ORHODOX conversion, if they wish to be accepted in norma Judaism. If Mr. Omet had o work do hardly to onvince Presdient bus today that giving away Jewish territories is the right briliant idea for the future of Israel, rather than the US Presidenthaving to coerce the Israeli prime minister (as it has always has beendone in the past) then somethig is terribly wrong here my friends. Especially sinc e Mr. Bush didn’t even encourae or accept the plan other than just hear him out. SAD SAD SAD. Mr.Olmert, first give away your very own comfortale bedroom to some of the displaced refugees who you evicted from their comfort zones in Gaza…. Then you can begn negotiating your kitchen and dining room, after we’ll talk about your office and play room. In the mean tme, before you dicuss letting go of your own home, don’t threaten innocent rightous pious Jews to confiscate their hard earned properties… Of course Chabad is to be bklamed for trying to knck some snce into this naive prieminister to was elected by only 28% of Israels citizens (that means that 72% have no interest in the government of evildoers) The conclusion of such individuals as wknow form Psals is Yitamu … look at what unfortunately happened to Mr. Ariel Sharon (may he get better)….

    The verse of Yitamu bythe way, as I once learned at a Tanya class here on campus is not that the individual should be destroyed, rather his bad acts shall cease to exist. May all of our evil follies dissipate from within us and mey we all begin to heed the tru call of G-d.

  37. Paul Freedman

    Josh, nothing is happening in the immediate future. Olmert’s government is as strong and legitimate electoral-support wise as any government in Israel recently–funny, if he doesn’t represent anybody how a government that you could actually agree with, gosh, never got off the ground–since presumably it had 72% of Israeli citizens behind it! Olmert and co. are just beginning to think about what “convergence/realignment” means on the ground. And you know, now that you mention us American Jews giving up our own property, the sleeping nook of my Virginia apartment is actually on the Israeli side of the security barrier in one of the published reports–it falls midway between the “Jordan Rift security Zone A2-4ii” and the “E1 Jerusalem Bypass Outer Extension Zone B12”. They are not exactly giving away the store and nobody’s properties are getting confiscated without compensation.

    And, yes, the Israeli Jews living in Israel are essentially the empowered trustees as to the land when it comes to votes and making decisions because they (like you) *live there*. But I personally give you my right to the sacred Gazan sand dunes of the Phillistines.

  38. Josh

    78% of the Israeli population does not at all support the Olmert Government. The surprise that he was able to construct a coalition is shocking and embarassing as it is, was b/c the parties who joined wanted prestigious positons of leadership and money for their institutions, not my opinion of correct policy. But they don’t at all support his ideas. Ask any member of Shas….

  39. Yochanan Lavie

    Sorry Josh, for not responding sooner. I have been busy (apparently, I have a life after all). Let me respond to the following:

  40. Yochanan Lavie

    “As your posted comments continue to prove, that you are an individual who is capriciously confused about where you stand. You revert to condemning Chabad for their legitimate Messianic beliefs. How much have you studied from the Talmud to call that heresy. Or is the Talmud also considered the same to you when it refers to deceased people as being alive or reciting the kiddush or other references where Chabad ideology’s sources are from.”

    Baloney. I am not confused at all. If Chabad renounces its messianism, and stops its condescending attitude towards other forms of Orthodoxy, I will re-join its fan club. As it is, I am disillusioned ex-member of said fan club for the aforementioned reasons. Despite that fact, I am openminded enough to like individual chabadniks. I like many Christians, but I don’t believe in Jesus- what’s the big confusion? Should I hate everybody I disagree with, in the name of consistency?

    As to the other part of your comment, I don’t pretend to be a talmid chocham. But one need not study Yoreh Deah to know pork is trief. Refer to Shmarya’s postings about why it is unacceptable to believe that a dead guy could be the messiah. (especially the one refuting the idea that Abravenel belived so).

    Back when the rebbe was alive, the anti-missionary people told us that was a key argument to refute Jews for Jesus. J for J now gleefully say “Right idea, wrong guy!” Thanks a lot, Lubavitch! You undid much of the good work you started to do.

  41. Franji

    If Chabad renounces its messianism, and stops its condescending attitude towards other forms of Orthodoxy, ……

    they can’t, sheneemar:
    – hayahafokh kushi oro, venamer chabarburotav?
    – umuuvvat lo yukhal litkon

  42. avi

    Chaya Tova, you are not naive.
    Josh, Yaasher Koach. Keep up the good work.

    Chabad helps, values and respects all Jews. It’s a fact.

    This blog is one sick repetitive recording:

    Bash Chabad and its followers in all aspects
    Bash the Rebbe
    Bash Moshiach (rinse and repeat)

    They will never acknowledge any good that Chabad has done.
    They will never acknowledge any good that the Rebbe has done.
    They are ignorant of Torah despite their attempts to sound erudite ( like the moron with his hebrew transliterations; and the nut job with his “halachic judaism” mantra – LOL )

    They were either hurt or insulted by someone in Chabad 90%
    or they think they’re a reincarnation of the Vilna Gaon
    or they really don’t want to be G-dly Jews at all ( including Ahavas Yisroel).
    or they’re jealous
    or they’re too stupid to understand Chassidus

    If the proof hasn’t shown itself in every single topic here including the title of the blog, the proof will be the ridiculous comments that follow.

    The guy who started this blog and his cohorts contradict themselves whenever its convenient to bash Chabad.
    You’ll never win with these guys. They either delete the post or make some absurd comment or argument that they think is witty and intellectual but is in reality pathetic.

  43. Lawrence M. Reisman

    Avi says:

    “Chabad helps, values and respects all Jews. It’s a fact.”

    Well, the Zionists were the active and enthusiastic helpers of the Nazis during World War II. It’s a fact.

    The Zyklon B used at Auschwitz was developed by Hadassah. It’s a fact.

    The entire Holocaust never happened. It’s just a Zionist hoax. It’s a fact.

    Just because you say “It’s a fact” doesn’t make it a fact. There are too many of us out here, ranging from the MO to the Charedi who have had experiences that directly contradict your comment that Chabad helps, values and respects all Jews.” And that’s a fact. Or at least there are any number of us who can say we have had that experience.

    Avi says, “This blog is one sick repetitive recording:

    Bash Chabad … Bash the Rebbe …
    Bash Moshiach (rinse and repeat)”

    If you bother to look at this blog, you will find that Shmarya is an equal opportunity asshole, he bashes EVERYONE. And quite frankly, as much as I disagree with much of what he says, I will never accuse him of playing favorites. And where he ends up in the end… well, the road to heaven is paved with alterior motives.

    “They will never acknowledge any good that Chabad has done.” Most of us will acknowledge the good. The problem is that Chabad refuses to acknowledge that

    1. They are not perfect.
    2. Not everything they do is good.
    3. That others have made major and signficant contributions to Yiddishkeit, both here in the US, in Eretz Yisroel, and even the former Soviet Union.

    “They are ignorant of Torah despite their attempts to sound erudite”

    That’s how you respect other, sometimes very learned Jews, by casting aspersions on what they know?

    “They were either hurt or insulted by someone in Chabad” In this comment, you have the “admission of guilt” You have stated that there are those in Chabad who hurt and insult.

    “or they really don’t want to be G-dly Jews at all ( including Ahavas Yisroel).” There you go again questioning the bona fides of your opponents.

    “or they’re jealous” To some extent you are right about this.

    “If the proof hasn’t shown itself in every single topic here” Espectially when he goes after Charedi rabbis in pre WW II Hungary, Rabbis Scheinberg, Berman, Willig, etc., all of whom are Chabad.

    Twice in the past 30 years, I remember when a number of Satmar (and others) ranging from a miniscule number (maybe 5 or 10) to hundreds, but certainly a minority of the herd, were warring on Chabad. The Chabad rabbis imposed boycotts on Satmar hashgacos, on the logic that the entire Satmar establishment was responsible for the wrongdoings of all its members. If we apply that logic to Chabad, the consequences would make what is said on this post mild by comparison.

    When the shoe is on the other foot, however, suddenly Chabad gets very defensive and takes a very different position. Finally, Chabad wraps itself up in the Rebbe, and tells us that each and every accusation against Chabad is an accusation against the Rebbe himself. Well, if Chabad keeps saying that, we might all just believe it, and the Rebbe’s reputation will suffer most of all.

  44. Josh

    Larence, You sound very impessivly intelligent. I think the universe might jsut bgin to align itself with your knowledge… One day, you might actually convince all of society.

  45. Anonymous

    good job lawrence, by the way how did satmer survive after they were boycott by cha bad .

  46. Josh

    Satmar are very fine and lovely people. It took them many years to get back in peace with Chabad. In fact, many Satmar hassidim have become Lubavitch. There are several prominent Roshei Yeshiva in Chabad who were originally from Satmar. The Satmar community was extremely vexed that they were losing some of their greatest minds to Chabad philosphy.

    A Satmar friend of mine whose uncle became Lubavitch informed me tat his family had warned him against this transition and even mourned his betrayel of them. These kinds of “conversions” got Satmar really angry at Chabad for snatching away all these people, through their very popula Tanya hiurim/classes. Eventually this led to violent tension amongst the hassidic sects.

    However, it is interesting to note that The Luabvicth Rebbe instructed many of these chassidim who had come from other backgrounds not to change their style of dress, to maintain the Satmar fashions. They still speak with hungarian yiddish dialects, albet that they are fukll fledged Cabad chasidim todat very well inter=rgrated in the Cabad communities where they reside.

    Today, even more so than when the Rabbe was alive, do you see this trend of Satmars and other chassidc sect Jews tending to become Lubavitch. uch of that is due to the “Heichal Menachem” institutions. Tey even build new Chabd shuls in cities like Boro Park, Williamsburg, Lakewood, Monsey, etc….

    The best thing is that my friend tells me that i=his Chabd uncle, who is now a leading figure of Tzach in the Holy Land based in Qufar Chabad, has been reacpeted in his family. His relatives even attended a Bar Mitzvah for his son that was recently cellebrated at 770 Eastern Parkway in Crwon Heights. Amazing. Thatgoes to show some of the recent mends between Chabad and Satmar.

    Satmars helped Lubavitch during various crisi, like the CH riots of 91 and other catstrophic events. Lubavitch has assisted Satmar as well during their moments of need. Including the recent funeral procession. The private community security patroll teams of both communities are tightlyy linked and operate under the same systmes with unity.

    You’ll find Satmars at 770 and Crown Heights Simchas Beis and iother events. You’ll se Chabadniks hanging around in their circles. I do. Though not a proper member of either sect, when I’m in eiter community’sI see them mingling with one another.

    This does not all mean that matters are that rosy yet. There still does exist some frictions between the two groups. Differences of opinion regarding the stae of Israel. Although you’ll call Chabd whatever. But in Satmar individual’s eyes the Chabadnik is a staunch Zionist, even the Rebbe Rashab. We had a discussion amongst some Satmars and Lubavitchers here on campus and boy woul;d you see their differences of opinion regarding this issue.

    Also, when a Mitzva Tank Suoer Sukkah Truk stopped in front of the big Satmar Beis Medtrash on Chol Hamoed, they almost had a fit. Then the Sukkah Mobile moved up to the Munkatz shul, and many Satmars follwoed along to farbreng on it. They just didn’t want to upset some of the old time Satmars who are still heated up by the fights from the 70’s.

    However when Lubavitcher walk througn Williamsburg for tahalucha, they are always offered drinks and othe refreshments from the Willaimsburg community. Great benevolent hospitality that tehy have.

    Indeed the Satmar Rebbi had much esteem for the Lubavitch leader, despite btheir various differences on certain topics…..

  47. Uzziahu

    yes josh,
    satmer turns chabad.
    a nice and convenient myth to weave.
    especially that of the rebbe requesting satmer chossids to keep their satmer attire.
    that is fully in line with hod malkhusso having subjects from all walks of life.

  48. Chaya Tova

    In regards to an early posting, I think if someone is a child molester than it is for sure not loshin hara to speak about it
    “IF” it can warn others and it for toheles. Here is what Rabbi Lazer Brody, shlita, says about the need to warn about child molesters:

    However, to bash a Torah Scholar who has not harmed anyone and kept halacha is very very very dangerous. The Talmud, in Sanhedrian 90a speaks about the dangers of speaking badly about a Torah Scholoar. I believe it is sad that one can even lose their place in the world to come if he does not do tshuva on this issue, G-d forbid.

    So while I think it could be okay that this site warns the public from child molesters or criminals if it is sincerely to warn the public, I am very concerned abotu the fact that this website speaks badly of talmidei chachamim such as Rabbi Ovadia Yosef shlita, Rebbe ztl, and other holy G-d fearing gedolim. That is my concern.

    I do not think the Rebbe is moshiach because according to the Rambam if a potential candidate for the moshiach dies before building the 3rd temple, he is not moshiach. However, to believe in the the wrong moshiach does not make someone an apikorsas, G-d forbid. They can be mistaken but this does not make them bad people and does not take away from the good they do.

    In short, I think it is okay to say on this site that you disagree with the Chabadniks who believe that the Rebbe is moshiach but I don’t think it is correct to “bash” Chabad and to speak badly about them.

    Rather, it is best to state the fact that you disagree with them on this issue in a polite fashion and explain why you disagree so others will understand but to go on and on about how terrible they are is dangerous.

    Many Lubavitchers are very holy, G-d fearing Jews who literally spend their whole lives teaching others to do mitzvot. It is okay to say we disagree with the fact they think the Rebbe was moshiach, but it is also not right to say not nice things about them and to not appreciate the tremendous good that they do!

  49. Josh

    Chaya Tova,

    This website has its objective very clearly sateted on it’s title. When one sees a church they know not to enter. When passing any other forbiden premises they know tha it’s the wrong place to go into. Likewise, this ebsite and its coherts will ot be influenced by your ahavat yisrael. They are the epitome of wickedness, doubtfully Jewish, for it’s uncharachteristic for a Jew to posses such rishus. Theyr problems are frankly deeply psycholigical as well as biological. So, unless your here just for the fun of arguing and debating with them, don’t think that you’ll actually have any positive effect on anyone.. I know that Chabad is in to that kind of stuff, that any Jewish soul, no matter how ditant ffrom trut h can still come back… bla bla. I do’t necessarily concur with them on that as many great Rabbis have disagreed with chabad on that point. however, I still have immense respect for them and attend their classes and clubs, and as my teacher theere at Chabad Club actually pointed out it is even potentially possible for the Rebbe to be the Mashiach after the ressurection. He’s not even a “mashichist” and he prooved it in the class with many Talmudic sources. So, don’t just takle this websites crap for any proof , check out the other side of the story (there are enough Chabad websites reagrding the matter) AND THE COMPARE and make your own decision. Of course, it is essentially futile to debate a matter that hasnt materialized yet. Le’s jsut wait for the BIG DAY and then just see the surprise mysterious man whomever he might be, even if he is possibkly the Rebbe…..

    Anyways, this site can become very annnoying frustraing for sensitive people with hearts. So, if you wish to save your heart… don’t surf here no more….

    I will,lease g-d go beck home to Isreal soon and there I truly have no tiime for this BS. But now, on vacation after school just ended, so it’s a little fun to wirte here and excersise some othe english that I just llearned…

  50. Steven Breslow

    Ah, the jihad is sweet – think of what it might look like if some of you fools were slightly educated…
    1. Many observant Jews will not respond or participate in the prayer for Israel said in many shuls, as it contains the words ‘reishit tzmichat geulateinu’, which various poskim have ruled is outright heresy. You may not like it, but the dissenters stand on rather solid halakhic ground.
    2.The custom of many to write letters to be read or placed at the LR’s grave is hardly new – this has been hassidic custom for hundreds of years, and was most widespread in the years following the passing of the saintly R’Meir of Premishlan (who was actually buried, as per his instructions, with sacks of notes people had written to him, begging his intervention on their behalf).
    3. The belief of some chabadniks that their rebbe is the moshiach is certainly not mainstream orthodoxy, but it is certainly not idolatry, nor without ample precedent in hassidic lore – read a little, Professors Freedman, Lavie, and you other self-appointed critics, and you may not come accross as such total fools…
    4.What’s interesting about the messianic faction in chabad today is not that they’ve introduced any radical ideas into hassidic tradition, rather that they’ve abandoned traditional chabad philosophy in favor of the ideas of other hassidic groups. To anyone who’s ever studied the Noam Elimelech, Nesivos Sholom, or other seminal hassidic works, this is very obvious…. but I’m sure the “experts” Freedman, Lavie, et al have all the answers without ever having read the questions, aren’t they smart ?!?
    5.Do any of the “experts” here have a problem with Breslov Hassidism, or is the hate reserved for chabad…. talk about biting the free hand that feeds you !! Unfortunately I’m all too aware of your parasitic kind – bash chabad in brooklyn, but mooch off them in texas, utah, or anywhere else it’s convenient. Have you pigs no self-respect ?

  51. Steven Breslow

    But on second thoughts, I might extend my sympathies for your deep frustration….
    It must be difficult hating chabad, yet seeing their power and reach growing steadily…and you just can’t do too much about it – ouch !!!
    Chabad here, chabad there, chabad is truly everywhere….up, up, down, down….ROFL !

  52. 1. All this rally-bashing, along with the Chabad-bashing, is nothing but chilul HaShem.

    2. Obviously those who find it OK to live in this “Jew hates Jew for nothing” ideology, find it equally OK when “yehudi megaresh yehudi”.

    3. If Chabad doesn’t let Olmert know his suicidal plan isn’t welcome in Capitol Hill, who will? I found it very inspiring when, catching up with the day’s chumash shiur after the rally, the parsha of the day begun with a mention of Nachshon ben Aminadav.

    4. Why Chabad got involved? Who in Chabad called the shots to bring people there, to hire buses and fill them up with rally-goers? Who put his own name, his personal telephone line and his personal e-mail account to serve as the contact person for people interested in going? I did it, because you people were waisting pathetically your time and you energy attacking Chabad, attacking the rally, and indirectly — or directly — defending Olmert and Israeli pseudodemocracy instead of coming to raise your voices for what every Jew should be defending.

    5. For the record, it wasn’t a “Chabad” rally. No Chabad website even mentioned it! But a few great guys in Crown Heights helped put it together, along with other great Jews in Flatbush, Queens, Five Towns, New Jersey, and Long Island — and least we forget, our Bnai Elim friends from Connecticut and Colorado. The whole thing was the brain child of Jonathan Silverman, a college kid with great ideas, and was brought to fruition by a collective issue of Jews who truly value their Jewishness — unlike those who spend the day attacking us online.

    6. At the end of the day, Olmert went back to Israel without the loan guarantees he asked from the US Congress, and had no option but having to scale down his Convergence crime. And I am very proud to say I had my two-cents worth in blocking the funding!

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