OU Petition To President Bush & Secretary Rice

The OU has a petition thanking President Bush and Secretary of State Condaleeza Rice for their support of Israel during these trying times. I urge you all to sign it.

I also want to take this opportunity to partially retract what I wrote here. Lebabnon could have been completely free of westerners and it would not have changed anything. Israel botched this war, plain and simple. It’s military and intelligence agencies have failed at a level not seen since the Yom Kippur war, and its political leadership appears to lack the will to do what is necessary to win.

The next Prime Minister of Israel may very well be Avigdor Lieberman – or from Shas.

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19 Comments

Filed under Israel, Jewish Leadership, Modern Orthodoxy

19 responses to “OU Petition To President Bush & Secretary Rice

  1. D

    The next Prime Minister of Israel may very well be Avigdor Lieberman – or from Shas.

    I would much rather the next PM be a dark horse unknown. The current political classes all carry the taint of feckless surrender and corruption. And the military establishment, as indicated here and elsewhere, has lost its tactical edge.

  2. Avorhom

    and of course (what is not mentioned by you Shmarya) what is the cause for inability on both the military and political level: the mindset of decades where the key word to any solution was and is “CONCESSIONS”. We must listen to the USA (you of all mocking Rabbis who are still in the galut mentality) and “the world”. IT did not beging today. It began when we had to find a “solution” and the invention was “land for peace”. What a garbage and mumbojumbo. And this was hailed academicians and social sceintists and liberal and even non liberal people who are devoid of any connection to Torah. People who belief and faith do not exist in their dictionary. People who fight beleif in G-d and His power. They wanted to show that the old archaic torah and mitzva containing the fact that Hashem gave the Jewsih people the Land of Israel to fulfill in it the Torah values are something from the past.

    That midset led forceflly to the change and shift from the preparadness at any and all tmes to fight the enemy. A mindset that once was set to uphold the highest level of DETERRENCE was shattered to pieces. Why do you think that Olmert and the Military experts are unable to do what they once knew? Why do you think that the yiddishe kop that once was able with Hashem’s help at it’s first and last ingredient) was able to turn the events quickly and surprisingly?

    Because theywere not imbedded in that mentality throwing and shaking off their earlier ideals. In fact (even an apikorus as en gurion) held as his most important principles the beleif that Israel belongs to the Jews. how he professed his beleif in G-d and the fulfillment of the Torah precepts notwihstanding, hi yiddishe neshomo still burned with the love and fire that led him to fight for israel belonging to the jewish people. you shake all beleif off and claim to be completely like th goyim you change all that initial mindset and we get oslo/wye/fleeing lebanon/intifada Arafat running the show/ disengagment and expulsion of jews (which btw *YOU SHMARYA DID NOT DECRY not only that, you besmirched the “settlers” and did NOT APOLOGIZE YET!” ) hamastan/kassams/kidnapping hshalit/ hezzbollah free to be state within a state/kidnapping of two soldiers killing eight and now the war 100’s katyuchas daily/ million in bunkers/ yiddishe kinderlech canno play in the summer/ soldiers murdered by the beasts yemach shmom…and you and others do not have the humility to acknowledge what you and others have failed. Bashing haredim (even respectfully a bit as you change a bit of yor tone) will not change the fact of ALL that happened that brought to thi disaster. It’s time for real self introspection and to do teshuva on the beleifs that led to the tragedy we find ourselves today.

  3. Paul Freedman

    I don’t know Avorhom: I don’t know that being an apikores automaticallly = let’s not use ground troops and the rest of it. Lot to mull over.

  4. Paul Freedman

    I was in Israel in 1973 and afterwards. I would bet too that Israel will experience another “earthquake”. But as rough as Yom Kippur was, as perilous as things seemed, Golda Meir and the leading generals “played it straight”–I don’t recall the kind of “bluffing” and slipping timetables and goals we have here, and the strategic goals were clear and met.

  5. avrohom

    Dear Paul,

    I didn’t say that an “apikoress automtically = let’s not use ground troops…”; in fact in this message itself i implied that Ben Gurion was a technical halachik apikoress (didn’t beleive in Torah she baal peh and in the fullness of torah shebiktav being by Hashem); what I said was the curent apikorssim, the one’s who led for decades a campaign to shake themselves off of any vestige to the “old archaic” judaism and actually the owner of this blog is also plagued with some of those beleifs, and they fell (i really believe that peres and rabin were convinced in a “new mideast”) that all the ills of antiisraeli and jewishness is because our tenacity to the old beleifs to an HolyLand” by Hashem and now they will shake themselves off once and for all from those fanatic belief and the world will love us..the french..the russians..and of course our cousins the arabs…adn then will say goodbye to the chumash, the siddur, the “holyland” jewish marriage and all jewish lifestyle that restricts us so much in the “holyland” and elsewhere and we will be able to marry the goyte in lebanon..jenin…and of course in germany…usa etc etc

    What the owner of this blog and many others like him cannot come to grip with themselves and they let it off on searching for any garbage they find on the internet against observant jews (and almost none on other jews…for instance there is now in asbury park a scandal by a reform rabbi misusing 100,000 $ for his mistress but even sha,raya would not post this (sometimes he does)) so to show that no: the contempt for “archaic” judaism of old is genuine and honest…and they exxagerate and falsely accuse more than the truth on the failings of the yeter hora which affects observant jews as well the non observant…but that is neither here or there: the fact is: Hashem created the world; Chose the Jewish people, Gave them the Torah, Erets YIsroel and we are to keep it and live it and find Him in everyone of his precepts and in every word of His wisdom the Torah….whether we understand or not the tragedies of histroy in a metaphysical level (and we can ask for His explanation) does not and will not puncture in our adherence to Him His Torah etc.

    But on a practical level, we must not lose sight: the source forthe inability to sent ground troops, use them efficiantly, smash the deterrence we once had etc etc if we will not analyze the root cause of the mentality of ALL leaders and involved and thepople who follow them blindly and we will see the pattern: “shake off” our link with the “Archaic past” and invent the formula “land for peace’ and to intimidate anyone who tells them: “peace forpeace” as “nonsensical” and other curses etc etc and they forget that the only edge israel had in it’s history was the deterrence that an eye will be meted out with more than eye (militarily) and that is smashed topieces by the gods of the secualrisms and that includes the so called gods of the owner of this site,

    respctfully yours,

    avrohom

  6. avrohom

    And Paul,

    Not only that. there is little criticism by the “right”. Yes we need unity at this time but it cannot come at the expense of not calling the bluff for what it is, while still united in the general war.

  7. Paul Freedman

    avrohom: with the best of leadership it is a hard struggle. I don’t believe that Shmarya conceives of himself as anti-religious but as a reformer. As a non-observant Jew (de facto practicing apikores) I have thought that he would more fruitfully find a stream of Judaism he is comfortable with and positively relate to it. I disagree that the owners of this site are really secular or anti-Jewish notwithstanding the emphasis on science vs. fundamentalism; part of the problem is the decision to be a Martin Luther smashing idols, etc.

    As we speak, Sidney Blumenthal, technically a Jew, and former hack-for-hire under BIll Clinton is spreading the word that “neoconservatives” at the National Security Agency are sharing targetting information with Israel not because Israel is an ally under attack but because, it is implied, they are dual-loyalist pigs who want to take over the world and, said right out load, they want to use Israel to take over Iran and Syria etc.

    I worry about that kind of Jew.

  8. avrohom

    Dear Paul,

    Of cours ithout Leadership it is a hard struggle. We are in a “dor yossom’ an “orphan generation” wher we do not have leaders of caliber (in Torah areas,
    and in nno torah areas). I do not refer to Torah scholars but Torah leaders who can guide us which ever exact move must be taken at this particular time.

    Of course Shmarya and his friends do nto consier themselves anti religous or reformer. But they are promulgating in a subtle manner (or more than subtle) that air and spirit: to destroy the fabric of faith and inner link and connection with HOlInes Aand things connected with the above the nature that exists in judaism and the jew.

    About Sidney Blumeenthal: where can find this information? It is really scary. While the conservatives are not necessarily the greatest lovers of israel but in the past few decades since Clinton we have seen liberals being influential in the mnds of american about the most vicious and anti israel propaganda and everything that is connected to israel.

    And it i interesting how also in this case, it is the obervant who are imbued with this innate feeling how the liberal clintonese environment brought us all disasters and how their people have the most radical positions against israel in a way that endangers israel…

  9. Paul Freedman

    avrohom, see this link for the start of Blumenthal’s blood libel:

    http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2006/08/03/mideast/index_np.html

  10. I wouldn’t call it a blood libel. If you take out Blumenthal’s spin and just look at the skeleton of the piece, it seems to me to be accurate.

    The problem here is that Israel did not take the opportunity given to crush Hezbolla, in part, it seems, because Israel does not want to confront Syria – or Iran.

    Israel wants the West to do both.

    But that does not seem likely.

    Iran admitted today to supplying Hezbolla with missiles that can reach Tel Aviv. Israel needs to decisively react to that admission by changing the facts on the ground in Lebanon.

    But if Israel’s conduct in this war is any guide, Israel will failt to do this by failing to even try.

    That is the problem.

  11. avrohom

    “The problem here is that Israel did not take the opportunity given to crush Hezbolla, in part, it seems, because Israel does not want to confront Syria – or Iran.

    Israel wants the West to do both”.

    I don’t undersand your logic. What does crushing now hezbollah got to do with confronting Syria and Iran?

    Crushing Hezbollah would be (at the moment) the only and best way to confront syria and IRan.

    They do not crush, because they do not have the mindset to do it. They are programmed by the last 20 so years not to do it. And yes, they are programmed to obey blindly to “protests” of the antisemites russia and france and bot to overdo according to the orders of the usa (the only freind left).

    They can’t crush hezbollah because they were trained for the last deecades to follow the idols of secularism which imbued them with the notions of false morality false justice non belief in the ideals of their forefathers etc. it all drained their energy not to do what their fathers did 50 or 40 years ago. It’s high time to smash all these failed and false idos.

  12. Nigritude Ultramarine

    OU Petition To President Bush & Secretary Rice

    Grovel, grovel.

  13. Paul Freedman

    Anon: for Blumenthal’s cut and paste the link and you’ll see it–you need to pay for the priviledge of reading all the dreck.

  14. Paul Freedman

    Shmarya–it is an anti-Jewish hallucination: the first sentence is probably true as far as it goes, but the follow-up, the second, is not spin but the meat of the piece and purports to explain *why* Israel receives NSA info. It is the political equivalent of a blood libel all too typical from the left wing nowadays. Meanwhile of the two guys in the picture, both prominent American pro-Israeli Jews who conveniently *look* Jewish, Elliot Abrams has a minor policy role and Perle is out of the government.

    “…they have discussed Syrian and Iranian supply activities as a potential pretext for Israeli bombing of both countries, the source privy to conversations about the program says. The neoconservatives are described as enthusiastic about the possibility of using NSA intelligence as a lever to widen the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah and Israel and Hamas into a four-front war.”

    The anti-Semitic tropes are encapsulated here: the neoconservatives (pro-Israeli Jews) do not serve America but are using their government roles as a traitorous cover (pretext) to fulfill their nefarious schemes of “neoconservative” (Jewish) world-wide bagel-snarfing rule.

    Again, R. Perle does not have a policy-making role at the NSA or anywhere else right now. The photo is both bogus and carefully chosen.

    Of course, back in the real world, as events are proving, the Administration and its staff have and had no plans to use Israel to attack Iran or Syria–they thought Olmert could deliver on his promise to knock out Hezbollah with air power or magic beans or whatever, allowed him some time, and are now pushing with Olmert himself (who is clueless, God bless him) to wrap it up–Iran was not and is not and will not be on the military table.

    The Iran-is-next fantasy however, driven by the belief that “neoconservatives” (Jewish conservatives in fact duly appointed by an elected President) are a conspiracy “hijacking” American foreign policy, has resurfaced time and time again. Seymour Hersh alone, one guy, has written about three pieces (for the New Yorker) in which Israeli Sayeret forces are joining with “neoconservatives” to blow up Pakistans nuclear facilities (1 article) or Iran’s (2 articles by Seymour).

    This stuff sloshes back and forth from the certified neo-Nazi press to the Pat Buchanan “paleo-conservative” American-first Christian-nativist press to the post-Marxist far left Nation, to the popular journalists who pick it up in mainstream magazines and back again.

    If this crap was true Iran would be a smoking cinder on a flat plane of liquified glass by now.

    Meanwhile, Olmert has announced that the original Israeli war aim to retain the Negev in Israel’s control has been modified; either UNIFIL or Girl Scout Troop #451 from Pensacola, Florida will be permitted to provide a “separation security barrier” between the newly defined “South Palestine” and the Jewish state which will “converge” to Tel Aviv and its surrounding suburbs, to be renamed as “Judenslandia”.

  15. Paul Freedman

    of course the jooz have “familiars”–their demonic gentile helpers–Vice President Cheney is one, Bush, another helper/dupe/puppet–that Bush and Cheney were actually elected unlike the scribblers of this material never seems to legitimate them or their neoconservative Yiddish-speaking overlords.

    Meanwhile Hezbollah has rejected Olmert’s revised terms for cease-fire: insists that there will be no cease-fire unless Israel provides an alternate means of rocket delivery: either by overnight parcel post or right-of-way permit for Hezbollah “Mohammedmobiles”‘; green and yellow festooned Isla-mopeds outfitted for door-to-door katayusha delivery..

  16. avrohom

    Paul,

    Look at this very important article:

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745748.html

  17. avrohom

    Paul,

    Look at this very important article:

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745748.html

  18. Paul Freedman

    avrohom: OK. yesher koach.

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