What I Would Have Done About The Gay Pride March

Jewish leaders across the Orthodox spectrum are rallying their forces for massive anti-Gay protests and riots to protect the ‘holiness’ of Jerusalem from the scheduled Gay Pride march. I think this is insane. I also think it is counterproductive. Here’s what I would have had them do instead:

1. Ten months ago, call the leaders of the Gay Pride march and invite them over for a dinner meeting. Explain that the Torah condemns one specific homosexual act. It does not single out homosexuality or homosexuals for special condemnation. Explain that we can’t change the Torah, no matter how much we might want to. Tell the truth – that we don’t have good answers for homosexuals and that we recognize the suffering that can cause. Try to nicely negotiate the parade out of Jerusalem.

2. If that failed, demonstrate, but not with the homophobic rhetoric and fundamentalist BS we’re now seeing. Set up tables along the parade route with large banners reading. "You’re Wrong, But You’re Still Our Brothers and Sisters," and similar slogans. Have the tables stocked with information on Torah and on it’s view of sexuality. Have other Jewish education materials there as well.

3. Tell the media that homosexuals are trapped between their sexual desires – whatever their origin – and the Torah. Note that this is sad and an unbelievably difficult test for them. Say that you disagree with the march and with any promotion of homosexuality but that you feel for these people and wish you could help them. Stress that they are still Jews and that God loves them just like he loves all Jews.

This approach might truly help Jewish Gays and it would certainly have been a PR victory for Orthodoxy. But bigots don’t care about helping those they hate or about the bad PR their hatred brings. If the Orthodox world would lose its homophobia and deal with this issue rationally, it could gain much. But it will not do so, because hatred of the Other is Orthodoxy’s lifeblood.

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14 Comments

Filed under Crime, Gay Pride March, Haredim, Israel, Jewish Leadership, Modern Orthodoxy

14 responses to “What I Would Have Done About The Gay Pride March

  1. Schneur

    What if there was an organized lobby for Adulterers in Israel and Jewish adulterers the world over. And what if they decided they wanted to march in Jerusalem.
    Should the orthodox community express their sympathy to these Jews : as being trappd between their sexual desires and the Torah.
    What if Jews liked to eat Chinese should we also express our understanding that their gastronomic desires were in conflict with the Torah.
    Chazal tell us Ein Hakadosh Baruch HU ba biTrunya , and Lo nitna haTora lemalachae Hashares.
    This means the Tore was given to Jews with their realistic ability to observe it. Torah does not demand things that people can not tolerate.
    This is Chazal speaking not me.
    By the way Judaism is not Christianity with this business of “God loves you “.Judaism is a religion of deedsnot beliefs.Love and belief in J will get you no where in Yiddishkayt.
    I do not know who God loves , but one look at the Holy Prophets shows a G-D who does not care for backsliders and sinners even if they are Jewish.

  2. Yos

    “Should the orthodox community express their sympathy to these Jews”

    Yup. Either recall the soul of Israel, or ignore them as apostates, Erev Rav.

    “I do not know who God loves , but one look at the Holy Prophets shows a G-D who does not care for backsliders and sinners even if they are Jewish.”

    You must have skipped Sefer Yonah.

  3. “Torah does not demand things that people can not tolerate. “

    So the prohibition against “laying with a man as a woman” must be misunderstood. Perhaps it only comes to condemn cross-dressing during sex or some other practice. Because, let us be clear – homosexuality is found in 2 to 10 % of males the world over. It is also found in the animal world. And most of these people don’t feel they have a choice – today a man, tomorrow a woman.

    So, either the Torah is wrong or we don’t correctly understand it.

    As for a march of adulterers, I don’t see a parallel here. An adulterer cheats on her spouse (or his spouse, d’rabbannan). She violates a contract and hurts her husband and family. Even then there is much room for sympathy and leniency, and one can see that if one looks at how these cases were dealt with l’ma’ase over the years.

    The bottom line: If there is a need to protest, and there truly may be this need, then do so in a way that is useful and helpful. You can’t repremand someone until you imagine yourself stuck in his shoes. Few people would be willing to give up sex and love for their entire lives for any reason. And even those who say they would do so would have a difficult time keeping that pledge. Have you no sympathy for this?

  4. Anonymous

    Homosexuals are 1 to 3 percent of the population. The 10 per cent number came from flawed Kinsey “research”, and has long been discarded as unreliable.

    Animal homosexuality is extraordinarily rare, almost nonexistent.

    Homosexuality is also very dangerous: they suffer disproportionately from sexually transmitted diseases; hepatitis; a host of diseases grouped under “gay bowel syndrome”, including, torn rectums, anal warts, infection from fecal matter; HIV and AIDS, and oppotunistic infections as a result. Homosexuals also suffer disproportionately from numerous psychological pathologies. Homosexuality also has nothing to do with human reproduction which the Torah commands. Homosexuals do not produce babies. Normative family life is healthy for males and females, who live longer healthier lives than those people who do not marry.

    It is obvious that homosexuality is unnatural. This should require no discussion.

    Shmarya, can you tell us something about yourself? How did you come to these views? What is your background, in terms of schooling, college, yeshiva? What kind of work do you do? How old are you? Where do you live? What rabbis do you like? Where do you learn and daven? Do you have any hobbies? Do you think the readers have a right to know at this point?

    I don’t ask these questions maliciously, but at this point, after what I’m reading from your pen these past few days and weeks, I really would like to know. How did you come to this point? Nobody intends you any harm, G-d forbid.

    Finally, you condemn the orthodox for having anger at the gays and others, but what about your anger, Shmarya? Your anger is present in nearly every word you write. You can’t say that about the orthodox. Sure, we’re angry at the gay rights movement, and some other movements, but angry 24/7 like you? No, sir. Most of us love G-d, Torah, the Jewish people, and Eretz Yisroel. Our anger does not consume us the way yours does.

    Please, tell us about yourself. Maybe other people will also open up, and it will take the very hard edge off this site.

  5. Anonymous

    this is Shmarya’s problem in his own words.

    “You can’t repremand someone until you imagine yourself stuck in his shoes. Few people would be willing to give up sex and love for their entire lives for any reason.”

    became frum and couldnt get set up with a desent shiduch, hes now a bitter cynic because of it. It has nothing to do with orthodoxy, it has to do with his lonliness.

  6. Scam Alert

    Scotty would just join the gay parade, unless he wants to parade with the donkeys and sheep in the planned counterdemonstration.

  7. Yisroel

    Schneur,

    Will the esteemed rabbis be protesting against sexual and physical child abuse by melamidim in yeshivos ?? I don’t think so !!!

  8. “Animal homosexuality is extraordinarily rare, almost nonexistent.”

    Not true, I’m afraid.

    As for your questions, read the “Who publishes FaildMessiah.com?” link on the right side of this page.

    Also read any of the dozens of post on haredi rabbinic child molestation and the coverup of same.

    Also read the Rubashkin posts linked on the left sidebar of this page.

    That should orient you.

  9. hmmm

    You see, what’s funny is, those are the concepts you absorbed at Chabad coming out in that post. Funny but sad.

  10. I was like that before Chabad. Chabad just reinforced it some,

  11. c-girl

    To the anonymous expert:

    There are plenty of diseases that get passed via heterosexual relations. Your theory about the pathology of homosexuality leaves out the truth that any risky or promiscuous lifestyle has its dangers.

    For more on this “nonexistant” animal homosexuality, read this:http://www.tierramerica.net/2005/0226/iacentos2.shtml
    I work with organisms that use chemoattraction to locate mates, since they have no eyes. Even in the presence of suitable mates, you should see the males writhing all over one another. Chemoattraction has a biological basis. They aren’t doing this because of over-exposure to media and gay pride parades.

    This discussion is getting pretty dumb. Why is this issue so threatening to some people that they’d prefer to make themselves sound like idiots rather than finding a way of accepting this unusual part of Hashem’s plan?

    And here’s a question of my own- some have been brave enough to bring up the issue of child (boy) molestation in frum communities. Why is what appears to be latent homosexuality given a pass in these instances? The hypocrisy is too much to take.

  12. S.

    >became frum and couldnt get set up with a desent shiduch, hes now a bitter cynic because of it. It has nothing to do with orthodoxy, it has to do with his lonliness.

    Why would you mock/ dismiss loneliness? It’s a huge problem for people. I think your apparent dismissal of it and lack of sympathy calls into question your credential as a rachman, although I won’t go so far as to question whether or not you are a ben rachman.

  13. Anonymous

    Hey S, Hitler Yemach was known to have been helped by Jews when he was down and out, his Doctor who was Jewish was allowed to leave the country with his life and a couple of deutchmarks and he wouldnt let anybody gestapo or whoever touch lay hands on his Jewish cook.

    Obviously the kind acts he experienced from Jewish People didnt stop his insanity down the road. Same here. Its obvious Shmarya has come across religous Jews he admires, but this blog reads like the Wanasee Conference.

  14. Yos

    “Animal homosexuality is extraordinarily rare, almost nonexistent.”

    It has no significance to this discussion, but having grown up on a farm in the Mid-West, animals will hump anything. I’ve never seen them run off to the West Coast to get married, or anything.

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