From the Babylonian Talmud, Niddah 13b:
Our Rabbis taught: ‘proselytes and those that play with children delay the advent of the Messiah’. The statement about proselytes may be understood on the lines of the view of R. Helbo, for R. Helbo said, ‘proselytes are as hard for Israel to endure as a sore’, what, however, could be meant by ‘those that play with children’? If it be suggested: Those that practice pederasty. [it could well be objected]: Are not such people subject to stoning? [I.e., punishment by the court.] If, however, it be suggested: Those that practice masturbation through external contact [by rubbing against a child]. [it could be objected]: Are not such deserving destruction by flood [i.e., by the hand of God, not through the courts]?
The meaning rather is: Those that marry minors who are not capable of bearing children, for R. Jose stated: The Son of David will not come before all the souls in Guf will have been disposed of, since it is said, For the spirit that enwrappeth itself is from Me, and the souls which I have made. [In other words, his seed will be spilled with no chance of causing pregnancy. This is forbidden for mystical reasons, because our mission is to have as many children as possible, "bringing down" the souls waiting above to be born. When all those souls have been born, the messiah will come. Women were married before they were able to have children but those marriages were not consumated until she reached maturity.]
You’ll remember Rabbi Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg allegedly told victims and their parents that, because Rabbi Kolko had not penetrated the boys (no pederasty), it was not actionable under halakha. He allegedly went on to threaten these parents and victims, telling them that going to the police or media was a violation of lashon hara law and was also mesira, informing. There was another another incident where a beit din apparently found Kolko’s actions unpublishable.
And the best part about all this? The gemara quoted above is smack dab in the middle of a small section of the Talmud that stresses the evil of masturbation, comparing it to, among other things, shedding blood. Most of the section deals with forbidding a man to ever touch his penis.
Rabbinic rot goes back a long way, it seems – in this case, 1500 years.
[A voice of sanity, so to speak, in this gemara is Rabbi Nachman, who ruled a married man did not need to worry about touching his penis. The idea behind this is, a married man has a better outlet, so to speak, than his hand and, if he does arouse himself, it won’t be his exclusive sexual activity. Poskim who are lenient with regard to male-female oral sex are in part basing themselves on Rabbi Nachman – who was, by the way, the leading halakhist of his generation.
I’d be remiss if I didn’t note the beginning of the gemara, which states:
MISHNAH. EVERY HAND THAT MAKES FREQUENT EXAMINATION IS IN THE CASE OF WOMEN PRAISEWORTHY, BUT IN THE CASE OF MEN IT OUGHT TO BE CUT OFF.
GEMARA. Wherein [in this respect] do women differ from men? — Women are not sensitive [i.e., they are not aroused by genital touch], hence they are praiseworthy, but in the case of men who are highly sensitive [their hands] ought to be cut off.
Women have changed much, it seems, over the years. And, by the way, Rabbi Tarfon holds the cutting off of hands should be understood literally. Think about that next time you wish for a theocracy.
This gemara should be mandatory reading for everyone before they get involved with Aish, Discovery, Chabad or any other kiruv group. Wouldn’t hurt to make sure the Jewish Federations learned it before making their allocations, as well.]
Ma Rabbi 
D 
Talmid Chochom 
Rabbi Yisroel Belsky 
Mickey Achbar 
TT Alumni 
Uncle cheese 
Hatzmich N. Zatzmich 
Velozen Bachur 
FailedMessiah.com 
Married people who have questions as to what they are permitted and not permitted to do, should ask a Rav. The internet is not the proper forum to decide questions of Halacha
What in the world does chabad have to do with this? You are a sick puppy with a hate that knows no bounds.
you are a gay dick sucker. Mother fucker piece of shit shmarya.
“Married people who have questions as to what they are permitted and not permitted to do, should ask a Rav. The internet is not the proper forum to decide questions of Halacha”
On this, we agree. If you have a question, ask your rabbi.
hateful hirtful shmarya wishes he got any attention as a boy.
Some little tidbits from that “Come and hear” site:
America’s New Government Church — Finally, a solution to doctrinal diversity. The rabbis have designed a one-size-fits-all religion for Gentiles: we bring you news of the Noahide Laws. Those who proclaim Jesus is their Savior will be put to death for idolatry. Congress has already begun putting the foundation in place.
Appendix: Why Christianity Makes Jews Uncomfortable
One has to wonder if the parenthetical redactions added to the snippet quoted here does not corrupt the meaning of the original text. As this is a Christian site lobbying for a NT-based theocracy I hazard a guess in the negative.
The site has the entire Shas posted using the original (out of copyright) Soncino translation. That is what is posted above.
Don’t like that site? Fine. But the gemara is accurately quoted, and the points I’ve made still stand.
The parenthetical additions are mine, except for things like “it could well be objected,” which are found in the original translation.
Rub against a child until you ejaculate? According to rabbis, that’s a matter for God to punish. That’s God as in the Almighty, not beit dins or secular courts. Sick.
This is a very misleading of the halachic sources. Yes, technically, the standard punishments of Bet Din cannot be administered in the case of pedophilia. However, there is a principle of “makin veonshin shelo min hadin”. The court would use non-conventional forms of punishment to take care of people who slip between the legal cracks.
Except the “courts” did not do so in the cases I cited.
I suggest that you do a little more research into Jewish history and you will see that these extra-judicial punishments were carried out all of the time.
I suggest you work on your reading comprehension. I refer above to two SPECIFIC cases involving a known child abuser. The beit din in both cases did not take action, once for the reason stated in this post. The second case was for that reason as well as another – there were not two male adult witnesses, just many male witnesses under the age of majority, each testifying about his own abuse.
The “gedolim” chose to allow the abuser to continue his work as a first grade teacher of boys. He continued to abuse.
If you ‘oral’ a women she will have an orgasim otherwise its just fake.
Hey Herideem!! Is it true you use a sheet with a hole in it between a Married couple??????????????????????????
“”””you are a gay dxck sxcker. Mother fxcker piece of shxt shmarya.””””
Ha ha Ha You made shmarya day!!! har har har
As the most accepted possek of this generation, I, Rabbi Yisroel (Israel) Belsky, feel the olam needs to know my daas regarding Rabbi Yidi Kolko Shlita. Rabbi Yidi Kolko should never have been arrested. A child, whether he is six years or nine years of age should not be assumed to be telling the truth accurately. And even if it were true that the child was touched inappropriately, these type of things happen all the time, its not enough of a reason to label the man a pedophile and danger to society. In the early 70’s,Yidi and I were together in Camp Agudah. I heard occasionally complaints from young campers that they had been fondled by Rabbi Yidi Kolko. Always I suggested that they allow me to go public with their accusation. It was my way of testing them for the truth. Each and every time, I heard the accusing child refuse. It was then clear to me that these campers were lying. Children are known to make up stories. To this day Yidi Kolko was never found to be dangerous to any children. To the contrary, Rav Pinchas Scheinberg Shlita and Rabbi Lipa Margulis Shlita, after carefully investigating many of the accusers, made a very clear determination that Yidi Kolko was innocent of mishkav zachar, and that the claims of inappropriate touching was nothing more than his showing of affection. That was their psak many years ago, and the olam remains obligated to accept it without any question. We therefore must give no credence to the shouting voices of Yidi’s most recent accusers. These are people seeking false publicity and to make an easy dollar off the back of a Yeshiva which in reality they should be very grateful to. I therefore, as always continue to stand behind Rabbi Yidi Kolko Shlita and give him my fullest support. I am fully certain that at the end Rabbi Kolko will be acquitted of all the false charges.
Obviously, the comment left above is not from Rabbi Belsky.
Please do not leave comments in other people’s names – even Rabbi Belsky.
Hey Achbar, you don’t need to go to the chassidim to read about the mamzer Israel Belsky. Just search “Yisroel Belsky bastard” and “Israel Belsky pedophile” and you should find there the begining of a not long enough long list.
TT Alumni, I am in shock over what I read on Yisroel Belsky. The guy is very sick and perverted individual. Another Kolko. Refering to him as “walking sewage that should be flushed down the toilet’ is so accurate. To imagine that I once respected the bum, makes me feel like vomiting.
Shmarya just sunk to a new low.
The sensibility and sanctity of the rabbis of the Talmud is beyond question for all but the heretics among us.
Is Shmarya saying that Rabbi Nachman is the only voice of sanity in that Gemoro?
If so, then don’t get fooled by Shmarya masquerading as a savior from corruption. He is part of the problem.
The foolish Scott cannot even read a piece of Gemara straight. How amusing.
Dude,
I have a lot of sympathy for you in the sense that I (as you can tell by my name) too must suffer at the hands of religious leaders(in my case the American Catholic Bishops) who either can’t or won’t uphold basic common sense morality(& unanimous religious tradition) when faced with the crime of child sexual abuse commited by the clergy. But “Come and Hear” is a anti-Semitic Jew hating website. It is like if I tried to criticise the inaction of the US Bishops in dealing with abusive Catholic Priests by citing material from CHICK COMICS or the anti-Catholic classic AWFUL DISCLOSERS OF MARIA MONK!!!
What the hell is wrong with you son? What are you going to do next cite the PROTOCALS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION? How about Elizabeth Dilling? That’s as nutty as anything these foolish pro-Kolko people say! Stop it!
>Rub against a child until you ejaculate? According to rabbis, that’s a matter for God to punish.
I reply: If I follow the logic of the Talmud the crime of “Rubbing against a child until you ejaculate” in neither forbidden intercourse (like incest or adultery) or homosexual sodomy thus it won’t merit the death penalty. However my STEINSALTZ edition of Tractate Sanhedrin part IV page 76 seems to indicate Rabbinically-ordained lashes are in order.
Dude I can figure this out & I’m a goy!
The problem here is not that the Talmud or the ancient Rabbis don’t provide a means for a Bet Din filled with individuals determined to stop child molesters in their tracks from actually stopping them. But it seems to be a problem of misguided Rabbis not having the will to do it.
Just like my Bishops. Canon Law. The Church Fathers. All condemn sex outside of lawful marriage & sex with children & pederasty. But for some reason some bishops keep sending abusive Priests back to the Parish. The Greek Orthodox also seem to have this problem. The same with the Protestants. Don’t EVEN get me started on what goes on in the Public Schools.
Anyway by all means hold accountable those who misuse your religious tradition to protect pedophiles. But for Heaven’s Sake DON’T slander the tradition itself by trying to associate it with protecting pedophilia! You only allienate those whom you wish to reach plus you give fodder to anti-Semites who wish too smear Jews by attacking the Talmud.
BTW as a Catholic I appreciate you promoting Rabbi Dalin’s book which vidicates His Holiness of happy memory Pope Pius XII. Good job!
BUT I feel a similar responsiblity toward vindicating the Jews who are smeared by falsely called “Traditional” Catholics who like to claim the Talmud authorizes pedophillia, incest and the murder of Gentiles so please stop making my job harder.
Yisroel Belsky is a real mamzer plus… I met him some years ago. He made my stomach turn. I found him to be a dirty perverted old man. I understand he’s still doing the same filth. No wonder he supports Kolko, and calls him Rabbi and Shlita. Perverts love perverts. I also read on one of the blogs that there is a letter signed by a few rabbonim acknowledging that know Rabbi Yisroel Belsky was involved about three years ago with a black African prostitute. I know they did not mean his wife because she is not from Africa. Please, anyone who has information on this, please post it here. I would love to distribute copies of the letter to all those foolish drinkers of the Belsky kool-aid. Just thinking about the red bastard makes me want to puke.
Ah, “Jim,” you really haven’t “figyred it out.”
1. The Soncino Talmud is a known and accepted translation. It’s on a bad website? So what. The translation – made almost 100 years ago by Orthodox Jews – is accurate.
2. Rabbinically ordained lashes, my friend, can’t be administered without having a Jewish court with the authority to use physical punishment. No such court exists, and none has existed for a very long time.
3. When the Talmud says “punished by flood,” it means “By the hand of God.” This is normal rabbinic parlance.
Today’s rabbis have covered for abusers rather than seek ways to punish them. They use the Talmudic portion I cited as a partial basis for their inaction. Get it?
Dude did you read what I wrote? I’m on your side!
>Ah, “Jim,” you really haven’t “figyred it out.”
I reply: Yes I have more than you know.
>1. The Soncino Talmud is a known and accepted translation. It’s on a bad website? So what. The translation – made almost 100 years ago by Orthodox Jews – is accurate.
I reply: I use the Soncine Talmud on CD Rom & the Steinsaltz not anti-Semitic websites! Do you WANT to reach people & effect change? Or do you just want to allienate them by using questionable sources? It’s your choice. Make it a good one.
>2. Rabbinically ordained lashes, my friend, can’t be administered without having a Jewish court with the authority to use physical punishment. No such court exists, and none has existed for a very long time.
I reply: So? None of your Jewish courts has any authority in criminal matters (which would include pedophillia) since the passing of the Israel Commonwealth of “Old Testament” times. What can they do other than excommunicate?
>3. When the Talmud says “punished by flood,” it means “By the hand of God.” This is normal rabbinic parlance.
I reply: I knew that. But as even “Talmid Chochom” pointed out it IS possible for a Bet Din to come up with a rationalization to punish pedophiles. It’s just that they don’t seem to have the will to do it.
>Today’s rabbis have covered for abusers rather than seek ways to punish them. They use the Talmudic portion I cited as a partial basis for their inaction. Get it?
I reply: Not unlike most of my bishops. Yes it is as I said. The failure is in the Will of the Rabbis not the Tradition or Talmud.
Since if they DIDN’t seek to cover for abusers THEY COULD find more than enough justification in Jewish Law to deal with abusers & kick them out of their communities & turn them over to the police. I thought I already said that?
QUOTE”The problem here is not that the Talmud or the ancient Rabbis don’t provide a means for a Bet Din filled with individuals determined to stop child molesters in their tracks from actually stopping them. But it seems to be a problem of misguided Rabbis not having the will to do it.”END QUOTE.
Get it? Do you now understand what I am talking about? There is no reason for us to be at odds. Indeed we may both be cut from the same cloth. I admire you for standing up to anti-Catholic “Jewish” bigots in your other posts defending Pius XII.
Know that I do the same against anti-Semitic falsely called “Traditional Catholics” in my own circles.
Good luck & G_d’s speed in trying to reform your own community of it’s problems.
additional:
>>2. Rabbinically ordained lashes, my friend, can’t be administered without having a Jewish court with the authority to use physical punishment. No such court exists, and none has existed for a very long time.
>I reply: So? None of your Jewish courts has any authority in criminal matters (which would include pedophillia) since the passing of the Israel Commonwealth of “Old Testament” times. What can they do other than excommunicate?
I add: It’s not like my bishops can actually throw pedophile priests in jail either. All that they can do is defrock them (if only they would get off their butts & do it) 7 maybe turn them over to the police. Even the Vatican has a Treaty with Italy to punish criminal activity done on her soil (there haven’t been any jails at the Vatican either for a long time).
What the pervert Belsky thinks he is an accepted posek. Yisroel Belsky is a genuine mental case. Does he also claim to be Napolean? He is no accepted posek of the generation. He is accepted as the sickest low-life of this generation in addition to being the mamzer paskenyak that helped Yidi Kolko start his carreer in boy molesting. Shame on both of them.
What, the pervert Belsky thinks he is an accepted posek? Yisroel Belsky is a genuine mental case. Does he also claim to be Napolean? He is no accepted posek of the generation. He is accepted as the sickest low-life of this generation in addition to being the mamzer paskenyak that helped Yidi Kolko start his carreer in boy molesting. Shame on both of them. Thanks for posting this.
To Jim the Catholic
Did you know the Generalisimo Francisco Franco the ‘facsist’ dictator of Spain saved ~80,000 Jews? Yes sir during the day Franco diplomats searched out Jews that could be called ‘long lost Spaniards’ e.g Sephardim and other Spanish sounding name of Jews, these were given Spanish passports. While at night these same diplomats wined and dined nazis. 99% of all Jews that made it to the Spanish border were let in, of course they were encouranged to continue on their journey. Would you rather be saved a facsist dictator or sent back to Germany by a Swiss democrat?
Jim –
Got it. Thanks.
Isa,
The only thing I know about Generalisimo Francisco Franco is that Chevy Chase says he is dead.
Yo Belsky,
You’re really not helping the case any. Let me clue you in on some extremely simple factoidal thingamajigs:
1. The general public opinion is already very heavily weighted against Kolko.
2. The holy-old-fucks like yourself have been made to look extremely stupid, due to your repeated insistence on clearing Kolko’s name and “sweeping it under the carpet”.
3. If you had any bit of common sense in that Talmudic head of yours, you and your cohorts would quit trying to clear Kolko’s name and simply disown him and disassociate yourselves from him.
4. The more you try to defend him, the further you fuck up your chances of claiming “plausible deniability” when the cases that are piling up against him go through the courts and you are called in to testify.
A more detailed response to Belsky can be found (Don’t click) here!
The preceeding has been a shameless self-promotion.